Knock Knock! Jon Gray’s home in the Bronx

With roots in fashion and art, born-and-raised New Yorker Jon Gray co-founded Ghetto Gastro—a culinary collective that uses food to celebrate Black culture and break down borders.

Article and interview by Mzwakhe Ndlovu. Photography by Joshua Woods

[Puffy Lounge Chair Sawdust / Black Grey](/furniture/chairs-and-stools/puffy/20299) — Puffy Lounge Chair Sawdust / Black Grey

When I met Jon Gray, almost exactly seven years ago, we got along immediately. That wasn’t my doing, though. I’m pretty sure anybody who has met Jon and reads this will nod in agreement. He has a way of making people feel at ease and at home. Since I met him all those years ago, we have collaborated on several design projects together, including his home, and…

Mzwakhe Ndlovu (MN): …So I wonder, Jon, where do you feel most at home? And what makes a place feel like home, for you?

Jon Gray (JG): Well, home is always The Bronx, and I think I realised that when I didn’t live in The Bronx. When I had to interact with different types of neighbours who really didn’t give a fuck about me, especially when I was living in a place like West Village, and my neighbours didn’t speak to me, until one day I was dog-sitting my mom’s Standard Poodle—Rest in peace to Brooklyn (the poodle’s name)—but other than that, I may as well have been, like, a DoorDash dude, you know? Which is crazy, right? It’s crazy to me that that’s just how society works. But I kind of missed being in my hood where I grew up, and people would ask me about my grandmother or my mother, or say to me, “I remember when you were yea high,” and all of that. So, like, feelings of community. Or just, like, driving through blocks where you have mad memories. And I could say that about many places like New York, California, whatever. Places I’ve created memories over the years, but many different types of memories. And also, The Bronx is where I go home and let my head down now, because, you know, no matter how real you keep it in the streets—and I’m known for not codeswitching and whatnot—but when you step outside, you’re still wearing a mask in some ways. So for me, I’m most comfortable when my feet are kicked up, my shoes are off, I’m watching White Lotus on HBO or, you know, Atlanta, or some old In Living Color episodes, and just eating takeout at the crib. No pretension. I let my shoulders relax, you know what I’m saying? With a nice honey.

MN: (Laughs) Always.
This actually ties in well with my next thought, because you and I started collaborating almost immediately after Craig Dykers introduced us, and one of the things we’re working on together now is toward your new entity—Gray Manor. And in the ideation process for that, you mentioned this notion of the "homebody" as not just someone who likes being at home, but as an idea of relating ones home to ones body in a more conscious manner. Having the two relate to one another more deeply. How you described how you feel at the crib made me think of that. Can you say more about what the "homebody" is to you in this context?

JG: Well, you know, it’s interesting because you could think of it as an organism, right? Like, something that’s living and always changing. But I think it’s also a state of mind. I think folks like us that work in the arts have to be outside, to a certain extent and socialise, but it’s like, we’ve seen the same motherfuckers everywhere! And I can only have so many aperitivos! Um, but for me, I’m really an introverted-extrovert, so I think people get it misconstrued when they see me out there. They know I can work a room and I’m comfortable speaking to people. But really, I’m an only child, right? So, my real comfort zone is being at the crib, with my thoughts, ‘cause my imagination is like—when my imagination is running wild, that’s one of my favourite vibes. When I’m just having those moments, I just go outside to download information, and then I take it back to the labyrinth that is my mind and synthesise it. So, that’s where the real work is happening. When I’m having those quiet moments.

MN: I mean, you traverse a lot of different spaces, so I can imagine it being exhausting. What does arriving at home after being at one of these social/cultural events look like for you?

JG: So, I think also as you grow up, and you talk about this lifestyle we’re living—and I have to shout out to all of the women, especially starting with my mother. I learned how to take care of myself through my mom. She had the good body wash and she used to get mad when I’d use her oils and her Olay and shit. But we had the sponges, we had the loofahs, so I learned how to take care of my body at home through my mom. Whereas some dudes would just have a bar of Irish Spring and some lotion from Rite Aid, and they’d feel like that’s it! I had the shea butters and the cocoa butters from 175th! Like, all of that! I used to actually judge shorties when I was in high school based on their soap game; I would be like, “At a minimum, you’ve gotta have the Dove [bar soap], like at a minimum!” I was on that Dr. Bronner’s because my mom was a little hippie. But, damn—[long pause]—you at least gotta have the Dove! My mom used to have this mint temple balm. I used to run through that shit, and I know it was expensive! We were talking about it in Savannah the other day, where my mom lives. Did I tell you I got pulled over by the cops when I was there?

MN: Yeah, for some dumb shit, right?

JG: Yeah, I’m like, it’s funny, though, just the differences in how, you know, nature versus nurture, right? These cops don’t know I use expensive soap!

MN: (Laughs) Which is interesting because where one is from and how one becomes are integral to one another but do not necessarily yield obvious results.
Do you feel like you embody The Bronx in that way? Embodying it as your home and as a central idea to who you are?

JG: Yeah, I think for sure, because when I think about what The Bronx is known for, it’s known for the idea of a Phoenix rising from the ashes. Beautiful things coming from these dystopian moments, which I think is just the nature of humanity, right? You look at so many beautiful things across cultures. Look at hip-hop culture, it’s from that context and it’s global. So, I think many people relate to a rebellious kind of point of view and perspective. Telling stories from the dirt. Like a griot. But my childhood was interesting because of the exposure I had. My mother really did a number on me, because I lived in these neighbourhoods and in these environments, right? But I grew up with everybody in my family being educators. And I was able to be exposed to entrepreneurs, super successful academics, people in politics. So, I was able to see success in its many different facets. Even like the summer camps I went to and the afterschool activities she chose to put me in, like Montessori-type learning situations in kindergarten. It really shaped my mentality. But I was always quite rebellious, and I think my neurology had to do with that. I’m a strong-willed person and a little bit contrarian as well. Like, if you say this, I’m gonna do that. So, I think having that edge is kind of what led me to the street side of things because I wasn’t getting rewarded for bad behaviour, so I had to figure out a ‘bad behaviour reward system’ somehow.

MN: Like, some kind of point system for those who are in the fringes of society.

JG: Yeah. Also, you can’t be broke growing up in the hood. You gotta be fresh. You can’t be a bum-ass naked man.

MN: It’s actually quite a paradox, isn’t it? That being from the hood actually costs a lot more money.

JG: (Laughs) Yeah, because you have to think of the aesthetic and social aspect of being in the hood. It is definitely, definitely expensive. Like, the hood starter pack is not light! Because if you think about it, it’s not about, “Oh, what’s in your driveway?” or “What’s your landscaping like?” or “Oh, what’s your investment portfolio like?”

MN: Or “What’s your summer home like?” “Where are you vacationing?”

JG: Exactly! And Black culture is a really visual culture, so it’s as if we have to wear it. So that idea is compounded in the hood. It’s how you move. You have to peacock, right? And, you know, when you think about the social hierarchy, getting fresh has a lot of leverage, especially from uptown. Like, growing up in Harlem or The Bronx, you just had to be fresh. You gotta be fresh.

MN: I didn’t grow up here, but I got that sentiment the first time I watched Paid in Full with my brother as a kid.

JG: Yeah! But I think, you know, in all that, it’s the same. It’s the same everywhere. But what’s funny is that even when I had my ‘grimy phase’ where I was trying not to get too fresh so the cops and the ops don’t think I have a lot of money, I had to express that somehow. I guess I do have these weird proclivities where I like to be the opposite of what I am. So, it’s like, when I was in the grimy phase, I had a lot of money, but I was wearing a uniform. Blue durag, maybe blue jeans, boots, dress shirts or polo shirts. But I’d go to the vending machine to cop some Skittles and I’d pull out a big stack of cash! I’d just have my life savings in my pocket!

MN: Let the record reflect that Jon Gray just pulled out a wad of cash, and it may as well be a small portion of his life savings.
You mentioned hip-hop culture before, and the importance of being fresh and those kinds of visual cues in the streets. All of those elements are key in the rap and/or hip-hop genres. I know you have a diverse musical taste, but is there something you prefer hearing when you’re relaxed at home?

2024 Knock Knock! Jon Gray Joshua Wood 4

JG: It depends on the mood. Right now, I’m listening to a whole bunch of Brazilian music. I just got back from Brazil and I was really inspired and I want to stay in that zone. That’s what’s driving me. I always gotta have these drivers, right? And what’s inspiring me to put in the work right now is to be able to get a house in Brazil is hearing that music, you know? So, I’m in that state of mind, like, where I’m listening to the OG Milton Nascimento and getting into that headspace. I’m just feeling the vibe. Also, when I don’t know the language, it becomes instrumental to me. I get to focus on the sonics and on the feeling, and with the lyrics, I can just feel the vibration of them. And the intention, but it’s not distracting me from coming up with an idea. Whereas if I’m listening to a Mobb Deep joint or a 50 Cent joint, I just go to a place and I’m like—you know what I’m saying? [Proceeds to recite lyrics from Mobb Deep’s What’s Ya Poison]

MN: (Briefly sings along) You’ve been speaking a lot about Brazil and, you know, thinking of getting a property there—

JG: Well, it’s BR BR BR!

MN: Bronx, Brazil, and…?

JG: Bridgetown, with [Pierre Serrao].

MN: Right! Bridgetown with P! So, thinking of all of these other places and potentially having them as alternate home bases of yours, how do you think your perception of what home means to you would change if you were to spend time there for longer terms?

JG: Home is where the heart is! I’m obviously at home in The Bronx, I’m also at home with you in my office right now. Just wherever I go in order to be myself, and talk my shit, and just vibe, and I can get a good plate!? A good plate is— I can’t move anywhere where the food is not bussin’! So it’s like I don’t—yeah, like, I need the food. I need the flavours. I need access to the ingredients. Brazil feels like home because it’s so Black, you know, and the people are amazing. And it’s interesting because it’s so Black, but I haven’t been to enough countries in the African continent to know what that’s like. But it feels like a version of that Blackness, but on this side of the hemisphere. Because it’s a similar situation to the States, but different. We all got on the same boats, but ended up at different spots, and mixed with the indigenous and the colonisers that raped our ancestors, right? So, you’ll see all the skin tones, the different hair textures. Not that you don’t see that in the continent, but you know what I mean.

MN: I really need to go to Brazil.

JG: We should go soon. It’s fire.

MN: Well, lastly, you have this statement you often say, that I have to admit I’ve started using too, when something is going well, or when food is good, or when somebody tells a really funny story, you just say, “It’s a beauti—"

JG: Because it really is a beautiful life!

MN: Oh, yeah, it really is! And I wanted to know, what is the definition of a beautiful life for you?

JG: A life full of abundance and possibilities, and just knowing that the possibility is the abundance. Because you can fixate on an idea like, “Oh, I planned on living my life this way when I was 20,” but the truth is, I didn’t plan to live past 21. So, I didn’t plan ahead that much at that time. I just knew I wanted to die a legend with my 15-year-old brain could put together as far as an idea of what the type of life I wanted to have. So, for me, when I think about the things I’ve seen, experiences, losses I’ve taken, the wins I’ve had, watching my homies build families, build businesses, and live beyond their wildest dreams. For me, you know, to even just have my mother, my grandmother, my aunt; people who used to have to walk into the Supreme Court with me when the judge could’ve thrown the book at me, and like, the things I’m able to accomplish now. Being here right now with you, all that—that’s a beautiful life! There’s no other way to look at it.

MN: It is a beautiful life.

JG: It really is. So, I always like to look at it as, you know, the possibilities are great because we could really get everything. Whatever we want, it’s already ours. You just gotta get it.

MN: It’s like that line in Carlito’s Way: “The dream don’t come no closer by itself. We’ve gotta run after it now.”

JG: Yeah! And it’s like the universe really, really wants to give it to you, but you have to already be on your way to get it. I was reminded of this when I was working in the office between Christmas and New Year’s. And everybody was like, “You go in the office at this time?” I was just showing up to the office, like, doing things. Often, I do my best work on the weekend when I don’t have to be on Zoom or talk to anybody. I just think. I was just here doing that, and then I got a call that turned out to be a great opportunity! I’m not the kind of person that goes away for the holidays—not to say that holidays and rest aren’t important—and I’m picking up the call on December 31st! If you call, I’m like, “What’s up? Alright, boom, you gonna start? Like, we get cracking, like, action!”

MN: Never not working.